Wednesday, March 24, 2010

True Colors

Republicans should be proud- their true colors are coming out.

"My answer is violence, by getting their attention," (Republican political blogger M. B. Vanderbutt) "If we can get across to the other side that they are within inches of provoking a civil war in this country, then that's a good thing."
Wow. Encouraging violence and wanting to start a civil war. Sounds like the type of people I want to hang out with. (Oh, wait- I try to avoid hanging out with traitors and terrorists- my bad!)


Lula O said...

We put up with Reagan, they put up with Obama. Tit for tat. I don't remember too well, but did Democrats threaten civil war and massive destruction over Reagan's policies? Maybe a few wackos, but like this? Unlikely. But it's a different time I guess. I won't be ruled by fear.

Curt said...

hello..this guy falls under the category of "a few wackos." Remember the liberals that vandalized the LDS Temples and churches causing tens of thousands of dollars in damages after the Prop 8 thing? There are violent protesters on both sides.

Seriously? how do you find this crap? MB Vanderbutt doesn't return any information on him in Google...although this post is in the # 2 listing for that search. Is the name just a play on someone else's name? you know, like republitards or democraps...?? VanderBUTT??? Never heard of this guy.

curtis.noble said...

okay, so I had a little time this morning when I had access to some of my "internet tools" at the office. You'll be pleased to know that the blogger you referenced has an audience significantly lower than this blog even. His posts generate only 1 or 2 comments from readers. He is not ranked in many search engines, and basically his blog at is very much NOT worth reading, even for a Glenn Beck follower! It's clear this guy is just some idiot that CNN (the source of your quote) is trying to put up as the poster boy for conservative violence. In that same article he says he does not suggest people break the law (only because he doesn't want to be caught...but still) But one does need to call into question the intelligence of anybody bragging to CNN about throwing bricks through the walls of democrat offices. And besides, I would beg to differ...throwing a brick through a window is NOT violence, it's vandalism. If you believe that brick throwing is violent and that democrats don't do this kind of thing...It's easy to find lots of thuggish behavior using Google:

And here are some links:

Christina said...

I know I am not perfect, but I also know this: I would NEVER EVER defend ANYBODY-democrat or otherwise- who exhibited this kind of behaviour. Congressmen have been called "n-----s" and "f----t" as they walk into work, they are receiving DEATH threats for them and their families, and an African-American received a fax with a picture of a man with a noose around his neck with threatening language on it. While this is happening, on the news yesterday a Rep. Senator was laughing (OK, maybe not laughing, but definitely smirking) about what was going on.

Mandy said...

Only a "few wackos" are doing this? What about Sarah Palin saying "Don't retreat, instead - RELOAD." Maybe she should choose her words more carefully when you consider the violence that is happening. Although, to me, she does fall under that category of a "few wackos."

curtis.noble said...

And surprise...the first one loaded and fired is ON A REPUBLICAN!!

The House's No. 3 Republican, Eric Cantor of Virginia, said at a brief news conference Thursday that someone fired a bullet through a window of his campaign office in Richmond and he has received threatening e-mails.

ALSO...there have been no arrests. Calm down people. Bricks thrown at buildings, phone messages, name calling, faxing...that is NOT violence. That is civil disobedience, vandalism, and intimidation...NOT VIOLENCE. Although it's strange that the first bullet fired was likely from a liberal...not a palin follower who "reloaded!" By the way, in context, she was not talking about loading a gun.

Lula O said...

How do you know what she was talking about Noble? Can you read minds now? You're right, how unlike Palin to say such a thing! She never says anything crazy at all - splat.. Also, let's check the definition of violence - In reference to human action - it stresses extreme agitation and often harmful and vicious behavior. Hmm, SOUND FAMILIAR????

Maybe where you're from spitting and shouting epithets is mild behavior done by rebelious teens knocking over the occasional mailbox and leaving burning dog poo on a teacher's door step, or maybe your just white and male.

But for me, well, that's dangerous, babyish behavior, uncharacteristic of what I would expect from a grown-up.

And Palin, and McCain for that matter, are just plain irresponsible with their comments. Explain it away like my teenager explains over and over, and over how he should get to stay up later, if you want to. Doesn't make it right.

srbushman said...

To make a blanket statement such as, "republicans true colors" is as ridiculous as the claims that "all democrats are communists". Just because someone says it, doesn't make it correct. With every thousand republicans' who cry for peace, calmness, non-violent means, the one nut job like whoever this Vanderass is, will get the most publicity and brand the entire party as violent imbred racists. It makes me sick to see how ignorant and angry people result to name-calling or violence, and equally how some in the media and several politicians make a handfull of incidents into the deep desires of every republican or conservative. If that is true, then every democrat is a card-carrying, red-wearing communist that wants us to put the Constitution through the shredder.

And on a side note, I found similar death threats and picketing and window smashing as dispicable when it was directed at AIG executives. But they deserved it, right? In approving measures (exec bonuses) that majority of American's disapproved of? But like I said, no matter how many of those of us who disagree with this legislation denounce those actions, we will still all be lumped together.

curtis.noble said...

Lula, as always I have no idea what you just! I haven't defended the behavior...I'm just saying that we can all calm down. There's some name calling, faxing of racist crap, breaking windows...that's not "civil war" it's not terrorism and it's not being a traitor. That's pretty much all I said. Oh, and I pointed out that a liberal fired the first gun! lol.

srbushman said...

And I'm wondering if the violent Republicans were responsible for Eric Cantor's home office that was shot at. Doubt it. And Rep. Stupak was receiving pro-choice threatening voicemailss before he changed his vote. Threatening phone messages, broken office windows, spitting in someone's face, are unacceptable, but it is not solely a republican problem.

Lula O said...

Heard on NPR - Cantor's office window was broken "from a bullet shot up in the air near his office." Liberal leaning, Jewish hating criminal, or Gross Pointe Blank serial killer misfire gone astray? Who knows.

And I think by using the word Republican, Christina may have been referring to the words of your Congress men and women. But then again, using words like "Armageddon" can't be as bad as it sounds can it? That wouldn't push any already crazy person over the edge of this highly charged issue would it? As of last count, 10 Democrats have been harrassed, and 2 Republicans. It's time for a little responsiblity before Stupick's office gets bombed like an abortion clinic. His wife won't even answer the phone anymore they're being so harrassed.

And Noble, ooooo, you really put me in my place. Good for you. Thanks for reminding me to add to my canon on die-hard conservative maleness the words condescending and chauvinistic as well. I can't believe I forgot those.

Carlos said...

>>it's strange that the first bullet fired was likely from a liberal...not a palin follower who "reloaded!" By the way, in context, she was not talking about loading a gun.<<

This is RICH! Curtis, you make no sense whatsoever. Why would a "liberal" no less want to risk jail time and an FBI investigation to fire a shot at the window of the House MINORITY Whip, when WE WON! WE WON!! That would be like shooting a gnat with a bazooka. Believe me, Curtis, liberals are smarter than that. But thanks for not stereotyping liberals as bleeding hearts with an aversion to guns and the 2nd Amendment. LOL.

Here's what I think, assuming Cantor isn't trying to manufacture this incident. (He blamed Democrats for trying to politicize this, which is really an unfortunate thing to say, when a legislator's brother with 4 kids had a gas line cut. That's not property damage, Curtis -- That's attempted murder.) First, the wackos responsible for this are probably Teabaggers, with very loose party I.D. They're as pissed at Republicans as they are at Democrats. Second, re: Palin, incendiary language is NOT explained away by "context." Some lunatic who reads "RELOAD" ain't thinkin' about "context" when they reach for their gun after target practice and decide to carry out Palin's threat. Also, on her Facebook page, she names Democratic Congressmen as "targets" and has a map of their districts with icons of CROSSHAIRS.

There is a legal concept that trumps free speech, which is you do not yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. This kind of incendiary rhetoric and graphics of crosshairs comes pretty close to it. Palin is beyond despicable, and I think she crossed an ethical line. The question is, did she break the law.

Christina said...

Here is what I would like to see: A Rep. senator or congressman coming out and saying, "This type of behaviour is unacceptable. We need to respect each other- even if we disagree." And actually mean it and say it with conviction (that is the part I have yet to see). That's it. Instead, more and more fuel keeps being added to the fire- and eventually, that will lead to a serious act that can't be taken back.

This reminds me of the election when people were yelling out derogatory comments at McCain/Palin rallies. EVENTUALLY McCain said something, but there were a lot of horrible things said before he finally started to stop them.

Again, if it were Dems doing this at this particular juncture, I would NOT defend them- I would condemn them. I often have condemned the liberals who vandalized and threatened after Prop 8- it was completely unacceptable then, it is completely unacceptable now.

I obviously know not every Rep. wants to threaten violence- but when is enough enough? Aren't we all sick of the hate being spewed, encouraged, and accepted? I know I am.

Carlos said...

>>To make a blanket statement such as, "republicans true colors" is as ridiculous as the claims that "all democrats are communists".<<

You're right. We don't have to make a blanket statement. How about this, from the latest Harris poll:

67 percent of Republicans believe that Obama is a socialist;

57 percent of Republicans believe that Obama is a Muslim;

45 percent of Republicans agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was “not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president;”

38 percent of Republicans say that Obama is “doing many of the things that Hitler did;”

24 percent of Republicans believe Obama is the Antichrist.

These numbers speak for themselves. That a majority of Republicans consider the President a "socialist"and a "Muslim" shows just how "low-information" and frankly, ignorant, a majority of self-identified Republicans are. That 24% of them consider Obama the Antichrist is downright scary -- we're talking nearly a quarter of Republicans who most rational people would charitably call LUNATICS. And by the way, did you hear what happened to former Bush speechwriter David Frum for disagreeing with fellow conservatives?

Second, re: Stupak, there's threatening voicemails, messages, etc., then there's DEATH THREATS. I challenge to show me one instance where a pro-choice advocate threatened to kill or do bodily harm to Stupak or his family. It's abortion doctors who have been the targets of assassination, and the clinics of bombings, and so-called death lists posted online with names and addresses. Did you know that the Congressman's brother targeted in VA had his name and address posted online? Similar MO, very serious criminal matter. Only last year, another abortion doctor was murdered by a pro-life lunatic. I have heard of only one instance on record of a pro-choice lunatic who gunned down an abortion foe.

srbushman said...

Polls reported are not always accurate, and looking at those I know who vote Republican I can say none of them honestly believe Pres. Obama is the anti-Christ. Similarly, those of my friends who vote democrat do not believe that President Bush knew about the attacks before 9-11, like some polls reported as high as 35%. Polls are not fact.

Second, I'm not exactly sure what the republicans should apologize for. The blogger who put up the address, should be investigated. Those who are the participants should also be investigated. Anyone who suggests violence is an idiot. But are you suggesting that republicans should apologize for the actions of wacko's who they do not know, they do not have any association with?

And lastly, I'm still waiting for Sen. Reid's apology for his racist comments. Why are we not holding him accountable for all the racial slurs, including those directed at Rep. Lewis? Are we just supposed to believe that he really called the President and apologized? I didn't see a press conference expressing his great remorse for perpetuating stereotypes, inciting fear and racial divide. I didn't even see an official statement. He's to blame, right? NO! It is ridiculous! I don't need a public apology from him. I don't believe that his idiotic comments, which he never disputed, were "showing his true colors" as a closeted racist. I give him the benefit of the doubt.

P.S. I'm wondering who Bill is. Since the republican violent tendencies are now exposed, when they were chanting "Kill the Bill" I'm wondering which Bill they were referring to. Bill Maher? Bill Clinton? Bill Nye? :)

srbushman said...

Sorry! My last comment. I called my representatives and senators offices in Washington, out of curiosity. I spoke to staffers, and asked if they had received death threats, frightening messages, etc. All of them replied without hesitation, yes! Especially Sen. Coburn's office, but wouldn't give details as they had been advised not to. I hate to say it, all of them, democrat and republican, are targets of hate, threats, etc from both sides of the extremes. I just found that it is a very sad truth.

curtis.noble said...

lol...wth? my comment was deleted!! It was there last night, and now it's DELETED! You know the one about calling Carlos on the carpet for falling for a stupid internet poll where participants were awarded funny money (internet reward bucks) with each question they asked?!?!?! THESE ARE TRUE COLORS OF LIBERALISM...when they are unable to debate, they silence and censor.

Carlos, you should be ashamed of buying into an internet poll taken of UFO enthusiasts trying to win a free weather radio buy answering a few questions.

Oh, and the biggest problem with the poll is that they never indicate how many respondents are Republican or Democrat! They don't share the whole store with how the democrats voted in that dumb poll.

Christina, John Boehner DID openly condemn the actions that are taking place.

I assume the other reason my comment was deleted was because I pointed out that the majority of incidents you all are so worried and afraid about didn't even happen! The news outlet Politico even retracted the stories and issued an apology. NO SPITTING OCCURRED! NOBODY CALLED A CONGRESSMAN THE N WORD! NO COFFIN WAS PLACED ON THE LAWN OF A DEMOCRAT AS A DEATH THREAT!

And Death threats are as old as Cain and Abel...Elected leaders ALWAYS receive death threats. My DAD received death threats as a Safeway store manager! So to say that only 2 republican leaders have recvd death threats is a flat out lie. There are standing rules/requests by the capitol police that govt. officials NOT PUBLICIZE DEATH THREATS!! Democrats are pissing off the capitol police right now. They don't want to talk about the healthcare bill...they want us all to forget about it so they're directing the attention of cnn, msnbc, abc, cbs, and even Fox to all this behavior that A. isn't happening as reported, and B. isn't new! It's been going on FOREVER! Get over it, and move on. republicans true colors are NOT traitor-ism, racism, terrorism...our true colors are conservatism and personal responsibility, liberal true colors are victimization and entitlement. End of story.

let's see if this comment gets published!! lol

curtis.noble said...

Thank you SRBUSHMAN for verifying that there is a professional request to not publicize or talk about the death threats! Democrats are ONLY doing it to politicize and demonize the right. What a classy bunch. By the way, I'd be surprised if your comment even stays up! Mine was deleted originally when I mentioned the standing rule to not publicize threatening communication.

Carlos said...

Curtis, here's the pollster:

About The Harris Poll
Begun in 1963, The Harris Poll weekly column is one of the longest running; most respected proprietary surveys conducted by Harris Interactive measuring public opinion and is highly regarded throughout the world. The nationally representative polls, conducted both by telephone and online, measure, and trend, the knowledge, opinions, behaviors and motivation of the general public. New survey data on a wide variety of subjects including politics, the economy, healthcare, foreign affairs, science and technology, sports and entertainment, and lifestyles are published weekly. Results of The Harris Poll are frequently quoted in the media, receiving thousands of mentions annually.

Harris Poll Weekly Alert

Subscribe to this weekly alert which provides details and access to The Harris Poll results announced over the past week.

Financial Times / Harris Poll

Read more about our partnership with the Financial Times and monthly survey results on European attitudes.

Join the Harris Poll Online

To become a member of the Harris Poll Online and be invited to participate in future online surveys, visit

And here's the link to the specific poll, same website:

Christina said...

I don't know who deleted it or how it got deleted- I didn't do it.

Carlos said...

Check it out and get back to me with a retraction, Curtis.

I don't know where you get most of your "information", Curtis, but I suspect it's Fox "News" and other wingnut sites. Another thing, before you question MY sources, I suggest you double-check your own.

It's really unfortunate that Fox News and the wingnut sites (Wingnuts, a book written by a Daily Beast blogger prompted this poll. It was reported on Yahoo, MSNBC, Daily Beast, which are mainstream media outlets.)

If you are not among that majority that believes the President is a socialist or a Muslim, then you're making progress, Curtis. But man, you really need to get your FACTS straight. This isn't the LYING world of Fox "News."

Carlos said...

Srbushman, There's no question that threats are a part of Reps.'s lives. If they did not specifically say death threats, then there's no way of verifying, say, how many Rs v. Ds received DEATH threats. But I agree w/you that these are fringe elements, and I said so. In my view they're associated w/the Teabaggers, not the RNC or the Republican Party.

What I did say about the RNC and individual Republicans is that they've incited fringe elements to behave this way. John Boehner, REPUBLICAN MINORITY LEADER, said an Ohio Democrat was a "dead man politically" for voting for healthcare. Then the guy got DEATH threats and now has a police cruiser patrolling in front of his home. He confronted Boehner on the House floor and told him, "WORDS HAVE CONSEQUENCES." Joe Wilson, REPUBLICAN, became a star with the fringe after he yelled "YOU LIE!" at the President FROM THE HOUSE FLOOR and uses it to raise funds. Texas REPUBLICAN AND SUPPORTER OF THE BIRTHER CONSPIRACY Randy Neugebauer yelled "BABY KILLER!" at Bart Stupak, Democrat of Michigan, FROM THE HOUSE FLOOR! Later, he apologized and backpedalled saying he meant that the "bill" was the baby killer. There's your "BILL". The guy isn't credible to me. THEN HE PUTS UP A WEBSITE TO RAISE MONEY OFF OF HIS VITRIOL. I think he meant Stupak is a "baby killer." Stupak said mildly that it was "unethical" behavior. MEANWHILE, Stupak has been INUNDATED with DEATH THREATS.

As for Harry Reid, I heard his apology. If it wasn't good enough for you, tough. Unlike the Republicans, Democrats have a MUCH BETTER TRACK RECORD ON MINORITY AND NON-DISCRIMINATION ISSUES than Republicans, who do not help their cause by flirting with Teabaggers. Then there's a constant barrage of RACISM, XENOPHOBIA, HOMOPHOBIA IN RIGHT WING MEDIA AND HATE RADIO.

And I can give you loads of examples of blatant racism from Republicans, not so much in Congress, but from state officials galore. The GOP seems to have a lot of OLD WHITE GUYS who say inappropriate things with regularity. The party simply does not have many women, and even less Latinos and African Americans in their ranks. The Democrats look like America, they're multicultural. And that's why Reid is more quickly forgiven. The Republicans, OTOH, are a party of mainly white people.

And Curtis, once again STOP LYING! Here's the first person account FROM THE CONGRESSMAN HIMSELF WHO WAS SPAT UPON:

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) issued a statement late Saturday saying that he was spit upon while walking to the Capitol to cast a vote, leading the Capitol Police to usher him into the building out of concern for his safety. Police detained the individual, who was then released because Cleaver declined to press charges.


curtis.noble said... retraction for you! Carlos, Of course the Harris website is going to be a little biased of their polling! The telephone polls they do ARE legit. BUT the online polls where they don't have control over the demographic of respondents renders it not statistically relevant. I put the source to my original post regarding this ONE Harris poll...but that was deleted. So here it is again:

From a statistics and polling point of view that synopsis explains the problems with the Harris Online Polls. I could conduct a poll on and PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that democrats believe that George Bush is a terrorist planning the next bombing and that Rush Limbaugh is not even human, but an alien life form. This is easy to do online. It's EASY to manipulate respondents online by targeting a specific demographic based on web surfing behavior using something as simple as "Google AdPlanner." This is what I do at specific demographics based on their web search and surf behavior.

So Harris does this too. It's evidenced in the way they target respondents using banner ads and email marketing to people who register to take polls on other "fire your boss by taking online surveys at home in 30 days" type of websites. I should also know that the Harris Online polls are not secure. They allow "bot" manipulation by automated software programs that scammers have developed to rack up huge amounts of "internet bucks" by massively submitting survey responses and poll answers automatically! There is no "captcha" service on the Harris online polls which leaves them open to manipulation by automated bot attacks.

I am an analyst...I can take any set of numbers and make them say whatever I want it to say. This is what ALL pollsters do. Yes, including my beloved Fox News. I never believe their polls either. During the election some exit polls had Obama and McCain neck and neck..which was not the case. The way they do this is by "controlling the sample" conducting exit polls at certain times of the day based on when likely republican voters would show up at the polls.

And the fact that MSNBC, Yahoo, and The Daily Beast ran the story on the poll is exactly what I was trying to illustrate above! That doesn't mean it's credible. Dan Rather was once fired over running a story that wasn't credible. CNN ran with a story on some right wing nut blog that had an audience of roughly a dozen!! Hardly representative of "republicans." Then Christina saw it...bought into the hype, and published it on this blog as a blanket statement that Republicans true colors are those of traitors and terrorists. YOU heard a poll on MSNBC or the Daily Beast that claimed 24% of Republicans think Obama is the you bought into it and re-published it here as though it accurately represents the views of a majority of republicans. It doesn't, it just supports your belief that right wingers are mostly teabagging (which is a very degrading sexual reference to use perpetrated by MSNBC) nut jobs. Here's a poll for you...Fox News internet poll claims that its viewers are higher educated and have higher iq's than viewers of MSNBC and CNN. Obviously hogwash. It's well known that registered democrats have a higher rate of college completion than registered republicans. So Fox was stupid to run that poll....obviously.

no retraction, you are dumb for believing what you read.

curtis.noble said...

no, not because he declined to press charges, because he couldn't identify the man. Video proves the incident didn't happen. The man cupped his hands around his mouth and shouted. When that happens, sometimes saliva leaves the mouth along with the words (which I'm sure weren't nice)...I'm not lying. And what you quoted is a NEWS ACCOUNT...not the congressman's own words. It's evident in the way it's written. Get over it Carlos....nobody intentionally spit on the man. He wouldn't need to press charges for police to arrest him and convict him. The problem is the video tape of the incident (which you're not going to see on MSNBC) proved there was no incident!

Lula O said...

I don't know what you're talking about Curt. I have deleted nothing. If I had it would show a -comment deleted by administrator- space. I don't think you can remove those without removing all the comments. Try it. I know, I've done it before with an Ann Coulter nut. I've also lost things in the past I'd thought I posted. It happens. Get over it. Calm down!

I find it funny, that even Elizabeth on The View thinks Palin in out of line with her 'reloaded' comments and crosshairs symbols next to peoples names. She actually agreed with Joy and called it irresponsible, and said it was extremely painful in the process to admit it. Imagine the hate mail she'll get now.

Carlos said...

Your statement was:

"Carlos, you should be ashamed of buying into an internet poll taken of UFO enthusiasts trying to win a free weather radio buy answering a few questions.

Oh, and the biggest problem with the poll is that they never indicate how many respondents are Republican or Democrat! They don't share the whole store with how the democrats voted in that dumb poll."

I checked your link. And even with the qualifiers that the poll's methodology is not "rock solid" he states:

"This is not to say that Harris’ survey is necessarily weaker than others of its kind. This kind of interactive polling is relied upon all the time for market research and the like. It’s just not as solid as other, more expensive polling methods. Zogby International, for example, uses similar methods.

Even if you grant a pretty wide margin of error, though, people will assume that where there’s smoke, there’s fire. The Republican leadership’s willingness to flirt with ideas like the birth certificate conspiracy, or their insistence that health care reform is an “apocalypse,” will appear to be bearing fruit."

So, this isn't just any "internet poll taken of UFO enthusiasts" but a poll conducted by one of the most respected names in the polling business. That gives it a certain credibility and their methodology, however flawed, is not by some fly-by-night operation. But I take your point.

Now, when are you going to retract your outrageous statement that there was Rep. Emanuel Cleaver was spat upon? Are you calling him a liar? And are you similarly calling Rep. John Lewis, a legend of the Civil Rights movement a liar?

"Rep. Andre Carson, D-Ind., told a reporter that as he left the Cannon House Office Building with Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., a leader of the civil rights era, some among the crowd chanted “the N-word, the N-word, 15 times.” Both Carson and Lewis are black, and Lewis spokeswoman Brenda Jones also said that it occurred.

“It was like going into the time machine with John Lewis,” said Carson, a large former police officer who said he wasn’t frightened but worried about the 70-year-old Lewis, who is twice his age. “He said it reminded him of another time.”

Here's what YOU said, Curtis, so you can't weasel out of it:


Quote: "Asked if racial epithets were yelled at him, Lewis responded, "Yes, but it's OK. I've heard this before in the '60s. A lot of this is just downright hate."

An apology from you is in order for further smearing Reps. Emanuel Cleaver and John Lewis by suggesting they're liars. Once again, Curtis, you don't bother to check your sources. Dude, you really need to get your head out from wherever and stop talking like a wingnut.



curtis.noble said...

whatever Carlos...get over it. Relish in your big victory, as you should. Congratulations you are right, I am wrong...about the N word. I was referring to a video taped incident where a congressman claimed he was called the N word by another republican leader as he drove by in his car. There is video taped evidence that as the car drove by, the windows were rolled up, and the comment did not come from a republican congressman AS WAS ORIGINALLY REPORTED...the original report said that a republican congressman hollered out the N word as black colleagues exited a building. This is the report I was referring to.

You're absolutely right and I apologize for generalizing my statement in saying that "nobody used the N word." I stand by my statements regarding the polling and spitting. The account of spitting you quote IS A NEWS RELEASE, not the dude's own words. It indicates that he made a statement....doesn't contain what his statement was. And the polling? Your quote confirms exactly what I said:

"This is not to say that Harris’ survey is necessarily weaker than others of its kind. This kind of interactive polling is relied upon all the time for market research and the like...."

It's not any weaker than other INTERNET POLLS targeted at a specific demographic. And YES, they are relied upon in market research heavily because you can control the target sample! That's the point! market research is done in a controlled TARGET MARKET. In this case, the TARGET MARKET should have been republicans. There would be VASTLY different results if they polled people who visited a mixture of REPUBLICAN sites (not right wing nut job blogs). Or maybe poll those people who donated to the NRCC?! That would be a more relevant poll to prove the reality of the data...but that wouldn't tell the same story which is intended to demonize the Republicans. Perhaps if I have the time in the coming months I'll replicate the poll in a different target of Republicans to show you what I'm talking about! And perhaps I'll design a poll for Democrats to show you that they don't have a clue about what this healthcare bill actually does! I'm sick and tired of hearing friggin democrats get all excited about the fact they now have FREE HEALTHCARE! they're just FORCED TO PAY FOR IT!! THAT'S ALL THAT JUST HAPPENED. Nobody is getting FREE HEALTHCARE under this bill! People can still be declined coverage for pre-existing conditions FOR THE NEXT 4 YEARS!! You can still be dropped from your insurance in the NEXT 4 YEARS!!!

Dang I'm gonna have to calm myself down and get outta this discussion! Being a fat white racist chauvinistic gun loving diesel smoke blowin teabaggin' obama hatin' bigot is really tough to handle sometimes!

Good luck in your naivety Carlos.

Carlos said...

I'll say something non-political here. Curtis's description of his job as an analyst, and his breakdown and criticism of the methodology used by Harris is the most objective thing I have ever read of his in these comments. Not that he hasn't otherwise been objective, but he knows his stuff, and I defer to his analysis. I also take what srbushman says, and find it hard to take some of these numbers too seriously. Plus, I have a lot of respect for Eric Zorn of the Chicago Trib, a progressive.

What is ironic in this is that, to me, Curtis sounds most rational and objective when he's not spewing talking points from his "beloved Fox News." That's the problem: right wing media, and Fox in particular. The amount of misinformation they spew is amazing to me. Every subjective, biased, yellow journalistic technique in the book they use. This is very sophisticated propaganda, because they're very good at what they do. And it's not only me saying it. David Frum, former GWB speechwriter and latest heretic of Fox News conservatives was very critical of right wing media.

The problem isn't only misinformation; it's bad information and talking points propaganda. All I can say, Curtis, is when you get away from your "beloved" Fox News, you sound almost reasonable.

curtis.noble said...

thank you very much blood pressure is back down! I appreciate your respectful words. I'm usually pretty fair when it comes to how I deal with Fox News. I believe I give Fox the same credibility as a news source that I give MSNBC. To me a NEWS source should never openly support a political soon as it does, it becomes an advertising agent for that political agenda. Fox is not exempt from my belief in this. I KNOW Fox News is largely entertainment and right wing talking points. As a conservative, this matches my belief system. You would be surprised to hear that I get my NEWS from Brian Williams on NBC Nightly News. But when it comes to political opinion...Hannity and O'Reilly are it. No Rush, no Beck, no Palin, etc. To me, if I am looking for unbiased news, I should not be able to detect the reporter/anchor's personal political beliefs in their broadcast. I assume Brian Williams is a democrat...but I don't know for sure. And as long as I can't be 100% sure when he's giving the news...then it's news and not talking points. I'm able to tell the difference between news and political talking points.

Carlos, you're a stand up guy, and I enjoy these debates. You and I will never see eye to eye. But in the end, I realize that we are all different witnesses to the same event. So we all have our own unique perspectives. And I'm sure we all agree that ... boy does all this anger and hate need to stop! I've said this since the minute the House passed the bill..Republicans are stupid to think they can repeal it. They don't have the votes to do's wasted time and energy. And also (a talking point) no entitlement program has ever been repealed. So what makes the ever so popular republicans think they can repeal it now?! I believe they will have sweeping victories in November though. Then they can start talking about fixing it. Even democrats know there are fixes needed to their bill! So get the votes, then fix it. Republicans need to move on to try and prevent the next huge spending bill...whatever it might be.

Christina said...

Here's something a little unrelated, but has been brought up a couple of times, and perhaps maybe even something we might all agree on (a big might).

At first I thought the Tea Party might be a good idea- I thought I might even like them. But then as I did a little more research, they quickly started to turn crazy. Like really wacky crazy. Have you all noticed the same thing as well?

Lula- I hope you don't feel like I was trying to incriminate you about the lost post- I wasn't at all! I think it just somehow got lost like you said. I have had that happen once or twice- it is not a common occurrence, but it has been known to happen. Maybe it was a ghost!

Carlos said...

Christina, check out Cuéntame, a Latino watchdog group that is pushing back against the Teabaggers (they do not deserve to be called anything else).

Here's the site on facebook (I already signed the petition, and it's close to 50,000 signatures.):

The teabaggers are not a coherent movement, with a coherent message, with coherent signs, with coherent leadership, with the discipline of similar movements in history. They are a loosely organized umbrella rabble funded by astroturf corporate money of at least 16 different groups.

Watch the Cuéntame videos to check out the rampant racism, xenophobia, and just plain ignorance in their ranks.

PS - I don't hold it against you and Lula to pre-screen all of Curtis's posts! (Joke.:))

curtis.noble said...

lol...yeah. I agree with you Carlos...the teabaggers as you like to call them is without any coherent anything. Including leadership. They are not representative of the conservative agenda. The tea party movement is something else though. There are groups of people that are afraid of the pending increase in taxes (not income taxes only, but taxes in general). They oppose out of control spending, and many of these people actually voted for Obama because he promised change and reducing deficits. There is a distinct difference between teabaggers (who are the birthers and muslim conspiracy protesters) and the tea partiers...the anti increased govt. and taxes people. I will never go to any of those demonstrations either way though!

Lula O said...

I didn't think that Christina. No worries. And Noble, I might also mention, most Democrats are not excited because now we think we get free healthcare. Because we believe we're so entitled as you say. You aren't even close. Dead wrong, completely off the mark, surprise, surprise. I'm excited because at one point in the very near future my family member will be able to PURCHASE insurance for the first time in years. A, according to a lot of conservatives, privilege he's been denied by the insurance companies for just short of a decade. He'll be able to receive preventative care at a reasonable price like everybody else. Maybe even prevent some problems in the future, when he's on Medicare. Hell, it will probably save the government money in the long run. But, why should we look ahead like that. I forgot - it's all me, me, me, now days.

Of course, I'm not expecting you to read this far anyway. I'm just a dumb old girl whose reading Sexism in America right now, therefore I know the odds.

Carlos said...

I hear you, Lula. As of today, women are no longer considered a PEC, nor are they charged more for the same coverage as men. Curtis, your uppercase claims are false:

1) People with pre-existing conditions who were denied coverage before will have access to a temporary government high-risk pool until the exchanges for private insurance kick in within 4 years. This is HUGE, because people with PEC will get the healthcare they need and not DIE or go bankrupt. Once the exchanges are set up, people with PEC will be treated like everyone else purchasing insurance.

Also, children with PEC who were denied or dropped from coverage, will be covered immediately. No more PEC exclusions in all new plans.

2) You CANNOT be dropped from coverage for the next 4 years. That's what "no more rescission of coverage on existing health plans" means. The only exemption to this rule is in cases of fraud. Again, this provision TAKES EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

Also effective immediately: Children up to 26 will be covered in parents' plans; NO MORE ANNUAL LIMITS IN COVERAGE -- This is HUGE for anyone who gets seriously ill with hospital or chronic care bills spiraling to 6 or 7 figures. Insurers, AS OF NOW, are prohibited from capping payouts for covered persons when they most need it; beginning to fill Medicare prescription donut hole for seniors w/$250 initially; no co-pay for preventive care and immunizations; this is about the only "free" health care, and saves a lot of money to the system over time by keeping people healthy before serious costly illnesses develop.

See, Curtis -- you bring up so much inaccurate information that 2/3 of the time is taken up fact-checking. Just like Fox. If we didn't have Media Matters and no one would ever fact-check what they say. Even then, it's not in real-time, so they're a moving target that's time-consuming to pin down, because they'll have moved on to the next lie.

Lula O said...

You're such a stud Carlos..:D